That is one of the the barriers is access to, information.
 2
00:00:04.371 --> 00:00:04.771 Right.
 3
00:00:04.771 --> 00:00:08.041 I mean, we still have limitations on what we can access
 4
00:00:08.041 --> 00:00:10.844 if it's not available through the library, you can't get it because
 5
00:00:10.844 --> 00:00:14.180 there is no access to the actual internet for security reasons.
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00:00:14.481 --> 00:00:16.649 That's just something that's not going to be there.
 7
00:00:16.649 --> 00:00:19.352 So there is that limitation on, information.
 8
00:00:19.352 --> 00:00:23.556 Even while I was working on my master's degree program, trying to find resources
 9
00:00:23.556 --> 00:00:27.360 to support some of my papers, that was, challenging for me.
 10
00:00:27.360 --> 00:00:29.996 I'd have to utilize outside resources sometimes,
 11
00:00:29.996 --> 00:00:32.499 you know, call a friend and be like, hey, can you look this up for me?
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00:00:32.499 --> 00:00:35.969 Or call my sister and ask her to do some research for me
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00:00:35.969 --> 00:00:39.139 and send some papers in to me because I didn't have that access.
 14
00:00:39.706 --> 00:00:41.241 But the pendulum swings, right?
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00:00:41.241 --> 00:00:42.709 It swings one way or the other.
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00:00:42.709 --> 00:00:45.345 And in the beginning, when I first came into the system,
 17
00:00:45.345 --> 00:00:48.348 the barriers were I mean, they were almost insurmountable.
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00:00:48.348 --> 00:00:51.418 But then as the pendulum began to swing, donors
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00:00:51.418 --> 00:00:54.621 started to provide funding for some of these programs.
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00:00:54.621 --> 00:00:56.756 You started to see more programs coming in.
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00:00:56.756 --> 00:01:01.594 And then with the Pell's coming back, that helped to just kick the door wide open.
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00:01:01.594 --> 00:01:01.895 Right.
 23
00:01:01.895 --> 00:01:04.831 And DOC wanted us to have programs, right?
 24
00:01:04.831 --> 00:01:09.369 They didn't just want to perpetuate this cycle of violence.
 25
00:01:09.369 --> 00:01:11.738 And I mean idle hands. Right?
 26
00:01:11.738 --> 00:01:14.741 Idle hands is the devil's playground, as the saying goes.
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00:01:14.941 --> 00:01:18.578 If you got guys who have nothing to do all day, every day,
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00:01:18.578 --> 00:01:20.246 that's hard on their staff, you know
 29
00:01:20.246 --> 00:01:23.183 and then recidivism numbers that comes back on them as well.
 30
00:01:23.183 --> 00:01:26.820 And so if they can provide opportunities, that's going to make life easier
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00:01:26.820 --> 00:01:30.757 for those inside the residents, inside of here, for their staff members and
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00:01:30.957 --> 00:01:34.127 and for the community at large, they open up the doors for that.
 

I consider myself a "state raised baby." I grew up in the foster care system from the age of 11 and was in and out of juvenile detention centers from California to Colorado.

I went to prison at age 19 with a life sentence. I spent my time pursuing education and bettering myself. I was granted clemency and released from prison in 2024. I continue to help others like me by teaching college courses across multiple prisons.

I prep lessons in my home office, then Zoom into prisons to teach business and economics to incarcerated students. I once taught from a cell—now I teach from freedom. But the mission’s the same: fostering change through education.

Adjunct Instructor

Going to prison and leading others to prison is all I have to offer.

Adversity

Barriers To Education Inside Prison

When you pursue, like policy and things like that,
 2
00:00:03.937 --> 00:00:07.941 what do you mainly focus on that affects black and brown communities?
 3
00:00:07.941 --> 00:00:11.177 Like what are the hurdles and the barriers that you face?
 4
00:00:11.478 --> 00:00:14.481 So inside or out? Both.
 5
00:00:14.481 --> 00:00:16.683 So I want to kind of tip
 6
00:00:16.683 --> 00:00:19.786 my hat to like Darrell Jones and a few other folks
 7
00:00:19.786 --> 00:00:22.789 who are part of the movement behind the wall,
 8
00:00:22.956 --> 00:00:26.793 you know, because I think there could not have been a me without an us.
 9
00:00:26.826 --> 00:00:27.260 Right.
 10
00:00:27.260 --> 00:00:32.260 And we collectively learned and advocating on behalf of black
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00:00:32.298 --> 00:00:37.298 and brown folks behind the wall, specifically, was the lack of access.
 12
00:00:37.570 --> 00:00:42.242 Like we couldn't access certain things as black and brown folks
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00:00:42.242 --> 00:00:47.047 that our white counterparts could access, whether that be just getting,
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00:00:47.914 --> 00:00:50.784 hygienic stuff that we're supposed to get by the state,
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00:00:50.784 --> 00:00:54.020 whether that's just getting adequate time out of cell
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00:00:54.020 --> 00:00:57.957 the way others were getting it, just from the basic level on.
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00:00:57.957 --> 00:00:58.758 Right.
 18
00:00:58.758 --> 00:01:02.328 And then when we saw how jobs were being given out,
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00:01:02.328 --> 00:01:05.498 where our white counterparts were getting the best jobs,
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00:01:05.498 --> 00:01:07.834 and we were getting the kind of mediocre jobs,
 21
00:01:07.834 --> 00:01:10.870 and in some cases, some of those weren't even getting jobs, right.
 22
00:01:11.404 --> 00:01:14.174 You know, there was a need that needed to be addressed.
 23
00:01:14.174 --> 00:01:17.177 But the number one need was we needed to come together.
 24
00:01:17.644 --> 00:01:21.247 And so, you know, we created a kind of a movement
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00:01:21.247 --> 00:01:24.250 behind the wall that started bringing us together.
 26
00:01:24.284 --> 00:01:27.754 You know, we used the African Heritage Coalition,
 27
00:01:27.754 --> 00:01:30.757 which had been in existence long before us,
 28
00:01:31.057 --> 00:01:34.727 you know, to bring black and brown folks under that umbrella
 29
00:01:34.727 --> 00:01:37.730 because it didn't house a specific ideology.
 30
00:01:37.964 --> 00:01:40.033 It was about your descendancy.
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00:01:40.033 --> 00:01:40.300 Right.
 32
00:01:40.300 --> 00:01:43.403 Like you're black, you know, and that's all it required.
 33
00:01:43.403 --> 00:01:46.739 And then we come in and we started building these things.
 34
00:01:46.739 --> 00:01:50.143 And so we first had to deal with ourselves.
 35
00:01:50.143 --> 00:01:53.379 And then we started dealing with the policy after fact.
 36
00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:58.284 And that became an effective tool because the administration is so used
 37
00:01:58.284 --> 00:02:03.284 to us being divided among ourselves that when we started making the waves of
 38
00:02:03.423 --> 00:02:07.293 just saying we want more cultural events, we want more of this stuff happening.
 39
00:02:07.627 --> 00:02:12.065 It was like, hold on, like, y'all don't dictate nothing to us.
 40
00:02:12.365 --> 00:02:15.869 And it wasn't about dictating, it was about just accessing,
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00:02:16.035 --> 00:02:19.038 like accessing what we're supposed to have.
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00:02:19.339 --> 00:02:21.407 Like who was going down to the minimums.
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00:02:21.407 --> 00:02:21.708 Right.
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00:02:21.708 --> 00:02:24.777 Like there was a lot of folks that qualified, black and brown folks,
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00:02:24.777 --> 00:02:26.946 but they weren't getting access to the minimums.
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00:02:26.946 --> 00:02:29.115 They weren't getting access to the pre-releases.
 47
00:02:29.115 --> 00:02:32.385 So if you qualified, we'd help them with the classification reports,
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00:02:32.385 --> 00:02:34.721 make sure that they get down to lower custody.
 49
00:02:34.721 --> 00:02:37.457 In most cases, I would sue on behalf of them,
 50
00:02:37.457 --> 00:02:40.093 and in a lot of those cases were won.
 51
00:02:40.093 --> 00:02:44.564 And so it's really like the experience of what is happening to us.
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00:02:44.564 --> 00:02:49.564 And so we look to address those things that seem to be where we find great
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00:02:50.270 --> 00:02:55.270 disparity in the policy, which written neutrally but applied disparately.
 54
00:02:56.309 --> 00:03:01.309 And when it comes to the community aspect, for me, I see what happens in prison
 55
00:03:01.915 --> 00:03:04.984 as a microcosm of what happens out here at large.
 56
00:03:04.984 --> 00:03:05.318 Right.
 57
00:03:05.318 --> 00:03:10.290 And for me, you know, when we think in terms of resources, well,
 58
00:03:10.290 --> 00:03:15.290 you know, the city hall, the governor's office becomes the DOC
 59
00:03:15.795 --> 00:03:19.866 in those ways, right, where policy governs community.
 60
00:03:20.266 --> 00:03:24.737 And so if you're not aware that, you know, there're certainly entitlements,
 61
00:03:24.737 --> 00:03:29.309 there's certain things that's happening in our community but are not happening.
 62
00:03:29.709 --> 00:03:33.046 And then we don't come out to these public forums to learn about them.
 63
00:03:33.046 --> 00:03:37.584 Well, that is part of the problem with educating and thinking with ourselves.
 64
00:03:37.584 --> 00:03:41.487 I think the challenge for me has been more so about
 65
00:03:41.487 --> 00:03:45.124 how do we bring ourselves in this open arena right?
 66
00:03:45.425 --> 00:03:48.595 Like how do we get more folks under one roof
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00:03:48.995 --> 00:03:52.865 to come to the same understanding and then to move forward?
 68
00:03:53.099 --> 00:03:56.102 So the type of policies I'm interested in
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00:03:56.336 --> 00:04:01.336 is the economics, how economics impact the marginalized folks
 70
00:04:01.841 --> 00:04:05.645 in the communities we're from, but also how education
 71
00:04:05.979 --> 00:04:09.415 you know, it's not given to us in the way that we're supposed to receive it.
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00:04:09.816 --> 00:04:11.351 You know, we're not supported.
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00:04:11.351 --> 00:04:15.021 We're still fighting fights that happened 30 something years ago,
 74
00:04:15.355 --> 00:04:20.355 you know, from Brown versus Education, you know, all the way up to,
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00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:24.297 Judge Garrity forcing the bussing,
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00:04:24.664 --> 00:04:27.967 you know, situation and reinterpreting the struggles
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00:04:27.967 --> 00:04:31.871 of the black and brown communities who just wanted access to the school board
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00:04:32.071 --> 00:04:34.874 so that they can make sure that the curriculums are what they're
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00:04:34.874 --> 00:04:37.877 supposed to be for black and brown folks in Roxbury,
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00:04:37.944 --> 00:04:41.414 these are the type of fights that are still on going to even today.
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00:04:41.914 --> 00:04:45.618 So, you know, like I said, it's a continuation of the work
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00:04:45.618 --> 00:04:47.287 that I was doing behind the wall.
 83
00:04:47.287 --> 00:04:50.923 So for me, coming out from cultural events
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00:04:50.923 --> 00:04:54.994 to working to bring brothers together is much like
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00:04:55.194 --> 00:04:58.998 now taking our same drive and bringing brothers
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00:04:58.998 --> 00:05:02.635 together from out here so that we can service our community.
 87
00:05:02.635 --> 00:05:05.938 And so that created the idea for me when I thought
 88
00:05:05.938 --> 00:05:09.442 about how to address racial inequity in our own communities,
 89
00:05:09.942 --> 00:05:13.579 like in the name Access Mass, like we're trying to access
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00:05:13.579 --> 00:05:17.884 Massachusetts in ways that black and brown folks haven't been able to so far.
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00:05:17.884 --> 00:05:18.785 Right.
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00:05:18.785 --> 00:05:23.389 And that means trying to figure out new ideas as well as taking some of the oaths
 93
00:05:23.389 --> 00:05:28.061 and then creating our own model for what that looks like.
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00:05:28.061 --> 00:05:32.832 So we created this redemptive process where we come back to our neighborhoods,
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00:05:33.066 --> 00:05:38.037 alleviate some of the financial burdens that they experience as well as,
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00:05:38.371 --> 00:05:42.709 you know, create a holistic healing from the fractured community.
 

I served 33 years in prison, most of which for a crime I did not commit. I pursued education and learned the law so that I could move forward and fight for others who were also mistreated.

We, as Black and brown men, weren't given the same access to resources inside prison as our white counterparts—from hygiene products to jobs and out-of-cell time. I helped build a movement of Black and brown men in prison to demand better conditions.

As a community liaison and paralegal, I work on legislative initiatives, gather racial data, and advocate for prison oversight. My days are packed with meetings, legal research, and building pathways to justice for people both inside and outside the system. Through my own nonprofit, AccessMA, I organize community drives that bring healing and support to the neighborhoods we grew up in.

Founder

Community

Working For Better Access For The Black And Brown Community

During that time, I had to go to law school and work internships
 2
00:00:03.269 --> 00:00:08.008 and started a nonprofit and, you know, said yes to every opportunity
 3
00:00:08.174 --> 00:00:13.174 that I was given because I needed to build a career.
 4
00:00:13.446 --> 00:00:17.150 And I found a lot of support.
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00:00:17.150 --> 00:00:20.320 At that time, there wasn't very many people who've been in prison
 6
00:00:20.587 --> 00:00:24.457 who were then sharing their stories to judges, to elected officials.
 7
00:00:24.457 --> 00:00:28.361 And I co-founded the first organization in Washington
 8
00:00:28.361 --> 00:00:31.331 that is led by and for formerly incarcerated people
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00:00:31.331 --> 00:00:33.867 and was teaching other people in our community
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00:00:33.867 --> 00:00:36.870 how to share your stories and why it's so powerful.
 11
00:00:37.003 --> 00:00:42.003 And as we changed the laws together, then I saw the need for them
 12
00:00:42.675 --> 00:00:46.846 to have an attorney to represent them so we can vacate our criminal records now.
 13
00:00:46.846 --> 00:00:47.680 Okay, great.
 14
00:00:47.680 --> 00:00:49.849 But you have to file a motion, go to court,
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00:00:49.849 --> 00:00:51.284 and people don't know how to do that.
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00:00:51.284 --> 00:00:54.687 And there's no legal aid that focuses on this issue area.
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00:00:55.088 --> 00:00:57.490 And so, you know, as I was going to law school,
 18
00:00:57.490 --> 00:01:01.094 I was creating pathways for people to get access to an attorney.
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00:01:01.261 --> 00:01:05.565 And I just wanted to make sure everyone had access to rebuilding their lives. And,
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00:01:06.533 --> 00:01:08.268 so I, you know, did everything I could.
 21
00:01:08.268 --> 00:01:11.738 The governor appointed me to like, two boards while I was in law school.
 22
00:01:12.038 --> 00:01:17.038 I graduated magna cum laude with, like, the Dean's medal and all of this.
 23
00:01:17.077 --> 00:01:21.081 And, you know, I always knew that I would have to face the character
 24
00:01:21.081 --> 00:01:24.517 and fitness board when I graduated because
 25
00:01:24.551 --> 00:01:27.754 everyone who has a criminal record has to go through this process.
 26
00:01:27.754 --> 00:01:32.525 I was very shocked when I went for my hearing and had,
 27
00:01:32.692 --> 00:01:36.763 like, the best attorney in the state who'd been doing it for 35 years,
 28
00:01:36.763 --> 00:01:41.501 and the best people testifying on my behalf, and over 100 letters
 29
00:01:41.501 --> 00:01:46.501 of support from prosecutors and judges, even, and law school professors
 30
00:01:46.539 --> 00:01:50.777 and people in recovery, therapists who knew me, so many people.
 31
00:01:51.344 --> 00:01:55.048 And they decided 6 to 3 that I didn't have the character
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00:01:55.048 --> 00:01:58.351 and fitness necessary to become a lawyer because of my past.
 33
00:01:58.818 --> 00:02:01.154 It wasn't just me that was devastated.
 34
00:02:01.154 --> 00:02:04.390 I think a whole community of people were because it was like,
 35
00:02:04.991 --> 00:02:08.161 if she works that hard, and then she's still told no, what hope do I have?
 36
00:02:08.228 --> 00:02:09.129 You know.
 37
00:02:09.129 --> 00:02:13.366 The reasons they gave for not allowing me to sit for the bar exam
 38
00:02:13.566 --> 00:02:16.936 were that they thought I was too proud of my accomplishments
 39
00:02:17.137 --> 00:02:19.139 because I had gotten the Skadden fellowship,
 40
00:02:19.139 --> 00:02:22.142 which, you know, it's been around for 32 years and
 41
00:02:22.142 --> 00:02:25.145 nobody from our school had ever gotten that fellowship.
 42
00:02:25.245 --> 00:02:27.647 Nobody from Washington State had ever gotten it.
 43
00:02:27.647 --> 00:02:30.016 No formally incarcerated person had ever gotten it.
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00:02:30.016 --> 00:02:34.721 And it was, a very competitive process, thousands of applications.
 45
00:02:34.988 --> 00:02:37.991 And it funded me to do the work I wanted to do for two years,
 46
00:02:38.224 --> 00:02:40.426 which was to help other formerly incarcerated people.
 47
00:02:40.426 --> 00:02:41.928 And I was very proud of that.
 48
00:02:41.928 --> 00:02:45.832 But, you know, for some of the people on the character and fitness board, that
 49
00:02:45.832 --> 00:02:49.369 was seen as a negative for being proud, and that's not the way it was.
 50
00:02:49.369 --> 00:02:51.971 It was like I overcame a lot in my life.
 51
00:02:51.971 --> 00:02:54.340 And so I am proud of where I've come.
 52
00:02:54.340 --> 00:02:58.144 And so I was so thankful when my network came together
 53
00:02:58.478 --> 00:03:01.447 and decided, we're going to appeal to the Supreme Court.
 54
00:03:01.581 --> 00:03:03.683 And that had never been done before.
 55
00:03:03.683 --> 00:03:08.154 And so, you know, on the day of that hearing, I left the Temple of Justice.
 56
00:03:08.154 --> 00:03:09.088 It was filled to
 57
00:03:09.088 --> 00:03:12.825 the brim and I left the day and I thought it would be like five months
 58
00:03:12.825 --> 00:03:16.629 or seven months, whatever, before I'd hear the decision again.
 59
00:03:16.629 --> 00:03:21.629 But later that day, in a huge shock and surprise to my legal counsel
 60
00:03:22.802 --> 00:03:27.802 to everybody, the Supreme Court ruled unanimously, that I could become a lawyer.
 

 had my first child when I was 15 years old. CPS told me they'd take my child away if I didn't complete school, so I worked hard, got my GED at 16, and started going to community college so that I could build a life for us.

My childhood trauma manifested in bad decisions with relationships and substances. I ended up getting clean through Narcotics Anonymous while in prison.

I had a few run-ins with the legal system and the stigma of a criminal record really affected my employment opportunities. I gave up on life and gave into my addiction, and ended up in prison. There I was exposed to recovery and a path forward.

My focus is to pass laws that restore rights, expand access to education, and reduce harm in the legal system. I've worked on multiple bills, including ones to expand education in prisons, vacate records, and restore voting and firearm rights. I also help other lawmakers understand prison education policy by prepping advocates and building coalitions. I work hard to represent people like me, who were once told they didn’t belong in rooms like these.

Washington State Representative

You can't become a lawyer because of your past.

Support & Encouragement

My Journey To Becoming A Lawyer

You know, my law degree actually helped, but I could have arrived
 2
00:00:04.471 --> 00:00:08.041 at this position as a state representative without a law degree.
 3
00:00:08.375 --> 00:00:13.246 The fight to become a lawyer is what kind of helped me get into elected office.
 4
00:00:13.246 --> 00:00:18.246 But I do think there should be lawyers that have lived experience as well.
 5
00:00:18.451 --> 00:00:23.123 And I'm really excited because now, in my new firm, I have a partner
 6
00:00:23.123 --> 00:00:27.961 and we are representing people for record vacating and firearm rights restoration.
 7
00:00:27.961 --> 00:00:32.961 And it's just my clients connect with me so much more because they trust me.
 8
00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:38.600 Like, I am really fighting for you because I know how unjust and how it feels.
 9
00:00:38.838 --> 00:00:42.208 So, I mean, I was born into poverty.
 10
00:00:42.242 --> 00:00:45.745 My parents divorced before I was a year old, probably about three months
 11
00:00:45.745 --> 00:00:48.748 old, is when her and my father broke up and he was in jail,
 12
00:00:48.848 --> 00:00:52.052 and she was court ordered to actually take me to the jail
 13
00:00:52.419 --> 00:00:56.156 and hold me up at the glass just so my father could see me.
 14
00:00:56.322 --> 00:01:01.322 So, you know, from early I was going to jail, to see my father.
 15
00:01:01.828 --> 00:01:05.365 You know, the last time I ever lived with a parent, I was 13.
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00:01:05.365 --> 00:01:07.967 I had already been in foster care.
 17
00:01:07.967 --> 00:01:10.970 At 13, I just left home permanently and was on the streets.
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00:01:11.671 --> 00:01:13.973 And so then that subjected me to more violence.
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00:01:13.973 --> 00:01:17.844 And really, when I got pregnant with my oldest at 14,
 20
00:01:18.645 --> 00:01:22.515 it was a blessing, because at that time
 21
00:01:23.383 --> 00:01:28.383 you could get on welfare, and I was able to use that to get into an apartment,
 22
00:01:28.621 --> 00:01:32.659 you know, but all of that childhood trauma, I would get some success.
 23
00:01:32.659 --> 00:01:34.561 Like in school, I always did well in school.
 24
00:01:34.561 --> 00:01:38.798 So I went back to school because CPS said they would take my son away if I didn't.
 25
00:01:38.798 --> 00:01:42.302 And I did all four years in one year, graduated at 16,
 26
00:01:43.069 --> 00:01:46.873 went to community college and I got my, associates
 27
00:01:46.873 --> 00:01:49.876 and then my bachelor's in nursing, and I was a nurse.
 28
00:01:50.343 --> 00:01:54.581 But the trauma kept coming up, and I would make bad choices in relationships.
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00:01:54.581 --> 00:01:54.747 Right.
 30
00:01:54.747 --> 00:01:58.384 I was very codependent and didn't feel like a whole person.
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00:01:58.384 --> 00:02:01.688 And so that would get me into criminal legal system involvement.
 32
00:02:01.688 --> 00:02:05.125 So at that time, I had several juvenile offenses.
 33
00:02:05.792 --> 00:02:09.362 And then I went to jail when I was like 23 as a registered nurse.
 34
00:02:09.662 --> 00:02:13.166 You know, finally, I think, you know, having the stigma of the criminal record
 35
00:02:13.166 --> 00:02:16.436 really impacted my employment opportunities.
 36
00:02:17.203 --> 00:02:20.373 And so I just kind of gave up on life
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00:02:20.373 --> 00:02:23.343 and was doing drugs and,
 38
00:02:23.476 --> 00:02:27.580 you know, stealing and selling drugs to support my habit and all this lifestyle
 39
00:02:27.580 --> 00:02:32.580 and went to prison in 2011 and met you amongst lots of other people.
 40
00:02:35.188 --> 00:02:37.624 And I think, you know, what changed for me is like getting there.
 41
00:02:37.624 --> 00:02:40.860 And it was the first time I ever was exposed to recovery
 42
00:02:41.161 --> 00:02:44.297 and ever exposed to a Narcotics Anonymous program.
 43
00:02:44.297 --> 00:02:49.002 Or, and these volunteers that came in and shared their stories and
 44
00:02:50.036 --> 00:02:51.704 then I knew I wasn't alone.
 45
00:02:51.704 --> 00:02:56.704 I'm not the only person in this world who, like, has done things that
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00:02:56.809 --> 00:03:01.414 we're ashamed of and is talking about it and can like, move forward.
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00:03:01.414 --> 00:03:04.751 And so that opened up my eyes to being able
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00:03:04.751 --> 00:03:08.321 to look at myself without a bunch of judgment and shame
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00:03:08.655 --> 00:03:12.926 and to start to understand the impacts of childhood trauma.
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00:03:12.926 --> 00:03:16.262 And that really, I didn't have a first chance at life,
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00:03:16.262 --> 00:03:21.262 and I'm not a bad person, and that I could still rebuild my life.
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00:03:21.801 --> 00:03:24.871 And there were going to be lots of barriers, legal barriers.
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00:03:25.572 --> 00:03:29.642 But I would continue to reach out and try to do whatever I had to,
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00:03:29.943 --> 00:03:34.280 to do things the right way and just live one day at a time and eventually,
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00:03:34.347 --> 00:03:38.251 you know, going into recovery and seeing how so many people
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00:03:38.251 --> 00:03:40.053 had changed their lives
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00:03:40.053 --> 00:03:43.823 and gotten the help they needed and were clean and sober and all of that,
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00:03:43.823 --> 00:03:47.527 and they still couldn't get jobs or rent apartments or things like that.
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00:03:47.527 --> 00:03:49.162 It made me decide
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00:03:49.162 --> 00:03:52.865 that I was going to go to law school to figure it out, because it was unfair.
 

Overcoming Trauma And Challenges

What are the barriers for current students
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00:00:02.836 --> 00:00:06.072 that are incarcerated and trying to get into higher education
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00:00:06.072 --> 00:00:07.407 like the barriers they face?
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00:00:07.407 --> 00:00:10.343 For me, it was financial.
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00:00:10.343 --> 00:00:14.447 When I was incarcerated, you had to pay for classes out of pocket.
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00:00:14.981 --> 00:00:17.784 Paying $400 for one class.
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00:00:17.784 --> 00:00:20.353 It's not sustainable when you're making $0.08 an hour.
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00:00:20.353 --> 00:00:24.324 You have to choose between well, do I eat this month or do I take a college
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00:00:24.324 --> 00:00:25.258 class?
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00:00:25.258 --> 00:00:29.329 What I would say is that education comes in all different forms.
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00:00:29.763 --> 00:00:32.866 I used to read everything and anything when I was incarcerated.
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00:00:33.633 --> 00:00:37.937 My college education, for the most part, didn't begin until I came home.
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00:00:38.271 --> 00:00:42.375 But my education started many, many, many years earlier.
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00:00:42.675 --> 00:00:46.079 And so read the paper, read magazines,
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00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:49.883 read books, read for leisure, get your reading skills on point.
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00:00:50.050 --> 00:00:51.885 And also talk to people when you're in there.
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00:00:51.885 --> 00:00:53.086 Conversation.
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00:00:53.086 --> 00:00:56.523 Simple interpersonal skills will carry you a long way
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00:00:56.656 --> 00:01:00.960 so that when the opportunity for higher education does come up,
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00:01:01.127 --> 00:01:05.231 whether it's in the prison, whether it's once you've come home, you're ready to go.
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00:01:05.365 --> 00:01:06.733 And I would also say never lose hope.
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00:01:06.733 --> 00:01:08.201 And I would also say never lose hope.
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00:01:08.201 --> 00:01:11.538 When you find yourself in a situation, when you find yourself in a hole.
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00:01:12.105 --> 00:01:15.075 I have a tendency of digging myself deeper and deeper in the hole.
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00:01:15.408 --> 00:01:18.411 And when the light bulb finally goes off and you realize,
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00:01:19.245 --> 00:01:22.215 rather than dig myself deeper in the hole that I'm in.
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00:01:22.515 --> 00:01:25.285 How about trying to figure a way to climb out of this hole?
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00:01:25.285 --> 00:01:28.288 That's when I started working on myself.
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00:01:28.321 --> 00:01:31.658 That's when I finally said, this is not going to be the end of me.
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00:01:31.891 --> 00:01:32.625 I'm going to go home.
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00:01:32.625 --> 00:01:34.861 I'm going to make something out of my life.
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00:01:34.861 --> 00:01:36.930 When I came home from prison,
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00:01:36.930 --> 00:01:39.933 I suffered from what I like to call catch up syndrome.
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00:01:40.066 --> 00:01:42.969 Not like the ketchup that you put on a hot dog, but
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00:01:42.969 --> 00:01:45.972 catching up to everybody else around me.
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00:01:46.005 --> 00:01:49.576 I remember meeting cousins of mine, same age people that I grew up with,
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00:01:49.976 --> 00:01:53.480 and they said, oh yeah, I'm working for such and such corporation.
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00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:55.815 I'm married, I've got two kids.
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00:01:55.815 --> 00:01:57.383 I own a house.
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00:01:57.383 --> 00:01:58.485 I was happy for them.
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00:01:58.485 --> 00:02:01.054 I said, wow, this is my little cousin that I grew up with.
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00:02:01.054 --> 00:02:05.558 But there was a part of me inside that really hurt because I told myself
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00:02:05.758 --> 00:02:08.761 this is what my life would have been like had I never gone to prison.
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00:02:08.928 --> 00:02:12.265 You know, the children I never had the wife I never had.
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00:02:12.265 --> 00:02:15.001 The husband I never had. The house I never had.
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00:02:15.001 --> 00:02:18.004 And so that's what drove me
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00:02:18.071 --> 00:02:21.808 to climb out of the hole that I dug myself in.
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00:02:22.041 --> 00:02:24.511 I said, I want a house one day.
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00:02:24.511 --> 00:02:26.012 I want a college degree one day.
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00:02:26.012 --> 00:02:27.080 I want kids one day.
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00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:30.049 I want a partner that will love me one day.
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00:02:30.049 --> 00:02:33.653 And what ends up happening is that we set our goals,
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00:02:33.653 --> 00:02:36.656 and we think once we get there, you'll be satisfied.
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00:02:37.056 --> 00:02:38.491 You want to keep going.
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00:02:38.491 --> 00:02:39.826 You set your own goals.
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00:02:39.826 --> 00:02:41.327 It's what makes you happy.
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00:02:41.327 --> 00:02:42.829 You know, it's not necessarily
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00:02:42.829 --> 00:02:45.498 how much money you're making, how many degrees are under your belt,
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00:02:45.498 --> 00:02:48.535 how big the house is that you have, how nice your car is.
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00:02:48.568 --> 00:02:51.104 It's what makes you content.
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00:02:51.104 --> 00:02:53.106 What tells you, you know what?
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00:02:53.106 --> 00:02:56.109 I am genuinely happy with what I have.
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00:02:56.176 --> 00:02:57.877 And to me, that's true happiness.
 

2025 HEPR Roadtrip
Specified ethnicity as Afghan American

Do not force something that is not there. Follow your heart and make sure you are pursuing your passion. Doors will open and opportunities will be presented to you because others will see the passion you exude.

I spent 16 years incarcerated, starting at age 18. After being released and redefining my identity through education, I know support formerly incarcerated students navigate a system that wasn't built for them.

I oversee the day-to-day operations by ensuring that staff meets the needs of our students. Our enrollment coordinator provides advising to current students and meets with potential students coming from community college or who are recently released from incarceration. I also oversee our peer navigator team which is comprised of current students serving as peer mentors for incoming students. My position as program director is to ensure each one of our departments is operating at full capacity.

Program Director, Project Rebound

You’re a gang member. You’re no good. You’re the dregs of society.

Trust & Hope

Perseverance

Lean On Self-Education, Connection, And Hope

Looking
 2
00:00:01.267 --> 00:00:04.270 back, right when you started your journey,
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00:00:04.637 --> 00:00:08.708 what do you know now that you wish you would have known then?
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00:00:09.709 --> 00:00:12.812 Okay, well, going into prison, what I wish I would have knew
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00:00:12.812 --> 00:00:15.815 then is don't go.
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00:00:17.183 --> 00:00:18.284 Whatever you do,
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00:00:18.284 --> 00:00:21.287 do not end up in prison.
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00:00:22.455 --> 00:00:26.059 But, I was 24 when I went to prison,
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00:00:26.059 --> 00:00:30.463 and my first time being involved with the criminal legal punishment system,
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00:00:31.498 --> 00:00:36.102 and I was recently released from the military.
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00:00:36.302 --> 00:00:41.302 You know, I'd been home maybe a year and a half, and I got to CIW.
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00:00:41.841 --> 00:00:46.246 And I really didn't know how I was going to do a life sentence,
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00:00:47.213 --> 00:00:50.383 but it was the women in that prison that really supported
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00:00:50.383 --> 00:00:53.686 me and saw things within me that I really didn't see in myself,
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00:00:53.686 --> 00:00:57.424 because I was so full of shame and embarrassment and guilt.
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00:00:57.957 --> 00:01:00.994 I didn't know what I was going to do or how to do it.
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00:01:01.327 --> 00:01:06.327 But I saw them in class, and I saw them painting and participating
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00:01:06.699 --> 00:01:11.699 in all kinds of leadership programs, and really changing the environment
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00:01:11.771 --> 00:01:15.842 and the landscape of the prison into something that they wanted it to be.
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00:01:16.443 --> 00:01:18.845 And so what I wish I knew
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00:01:18.845 --> 00:01:21.915 then is that community lives in prison.
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00:01:22.182 --> 00:01:27.182 Opportunities among your peers are important in that I would have
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00:01:27.387 --> 00:01:32.387 relationships and build friendships with people that would last a lifetime.
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00:01:32.659 --> 00:01:33.726 I didn't know that then.
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00:01:33.726 --> 00:01:35.095 I know that now.
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00:01:35.095 --> 00:01:37.564 Post release, that I can do anything.
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00:01:38.531 --> 00:01:41.534 You know, if you can survive
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00:01:41.801 --> 00:01:44.737 prison, living in a six by ten, an eight by ten,
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00:01:44.737 --> 00:01:48.808 a four by six solitary confinement, you can do anything.
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00:01:49.242 --> 00:01:51.344 We are superheroes when we come out,
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00:01:51.344 --> 00:01:55.081 we have to see ourselves not only as survivors and people
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00:01:55.081 --> 00:01:59.152 who have this lived experience, but people who have overcome it.
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00:01:59.552 --> 00:02:03.590 And if you can overcome that, there is nothing we can't do.
 

You can enter this field with or without a degree. The most important thing is to have heart for the work.

I was sentenced to life in prison when I was 24 years old. I was filled with shame and guilt. The other women in prison really supported me and saw things in me that I didn't see in myself. I know now after surviving prison that I can do anything.

Each day, I bridge two worlds—college campuses and prison classrooms—leading justice education across the Claremont Colleges. My work includes recruiting and supporting faculty, building Inside-Out courses, mentoring students, and shaping a new major in Justice Education. I collaborate across campuses to design curriculum, expand programs, and advocate for policy change that supports reentry and reimagines justice.

Founding Senior Director, Claremont Justice Education Center

There's no way the Claremont Colleges will allow a 47-year old Black woman who just served 23 years in prison on their campuses.

Overcoming Prison

You know if you reflect back, you know to your younger self
 2
00:00:02.902 --> 00:00:05.472 and to your future self, what would you tell yourself?
 3
00:00:05.472 --> 00:00:08.208 Like, you know, this is you know, this is how to go through things.
 4
00:00:08.208 --> 00:00:10.844 I don't know if my younger self would have listened, honestly.
 5
00:00:10.844 --> 00:00:14.347 I mean, at this point right now, I think if my younger self could see me,
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00:00:15.015 --> 00:00:16.583 they'd be lost for words.
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00:00:16.583 --> 00:00:19.953 We were in a pretty dark place, and, you know, it's a long story short, but
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00:00:20.487 --> 00:00:24.557 I ended up going straight to, to work after high school because my father
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00:00:24.557 --> 00:00:28.728 at the time was disabled, and my mother, had just been incarcerated.
 10
00:00:28.762 --> 00:00:31.731 And you want to talk about depression and not having a direction?
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00:00:31.731 --> 00:00:33.500 That's exactly where I was.
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00:00:33.500 --> 00:00:34.567 I didn't know what was next.
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00:00:34.567 --> 00:00:37.537 And, I was really fearful of what was happening to my family.
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00:00:37.537 --> 00:00:39.205 But doors opened.
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00:00:39.205 --> 00:00:42.208 The community around me stepped up to support me.
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00:00:42.375 --> 00:00:43.576 And I did have a group of people
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00:00:43.576 --> 00:00:45.779 who believed in the things that I talked about.
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00:00:45.779 --> 00:00:47.580 And I think that's such an important element, right?
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00:00:47.580 --> 00:00:48.848 Like your dreams shouldn't
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00:00:48.848 --> 00:00:51.851 just be things that people laugh at and change the station on.
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00:00:51.851 --> 00:00:53.386 They should they should invest.
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00:00:53.386 --> 00:00:56.589 You know, when I said, hey, like, I see myself moving out of Philadelphia
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00:00:56.589 --> 00:00:57.924 one day, you know, people
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00:00:57.924 --> 00:01:01.261 that ask me, oh, where and what does, your first apartment look like?
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00:01:01.728 --> 00:01:05.632 These conversations really help promote the idea that it could happen.
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00:01:05.698 --> 00:01:06.533 And so,
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00:01:06.533 --> 00:01:10.603 navigating what was going on at home with my family having a big why, right?
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00:01:10.603 --> 00:01:14.007 The reason why I was working also helped propel me forward.
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00:01:14.174 --> 00:01:15.775 Because again, you got two outcomes, right?
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00:01:15.775 --> 00:01:17.977 Things stay the same or they change.
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00:01:17.977 --> 00:01:19.712 I needed things to change badly.
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00:01:19.712 --> 00:01:21.614 And I needed them to change for my entire family.
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00:01:21.614 --> 00:01:25.318 So I told you earlier, you know, you'll go through a bad day and bad days happen.
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00:01:25.318 --> 00:01:28.788 But I am a living testament to the idea
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00:01:28.788 --> 00:01:31.958 that what's coming is so much better than what's happening right now.
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00:01:32.325 --> 00:01:33.860 I can promise you that.
 

In the tech world, you don't necessarily need a college degree. Certifications are a more cost-effective way to build skills and break into tech. However, if you have C-suite aspirations, it may be a good idea to pursue a bachelor's degree and MBA. I recommend taking a moment to map out what exactly it is that you want. Build a vision board. Figure out what you want first and then map the route it takes to get there.

I went into the workforce after high school because my father was disabled and my mother was incarcerated. It was a dark time. I struggled with depression and lacked direction. My faith and the support of my community is what pushed me forward.

Each day, I design learning experiences and partner with Fortune 50–500 companies to help them build equitable, inclusive cultures. I research, develop curricula, and collaborate across teams to ensure our programs open doors for diverse talent.

Associate Director, Learning & Advisory Services

How I Persevered Through Adversity

Was it tough for you to, like, make that decision to say like college
 2
00:00:02.836 --> 00:00:03.770 wasn't for me?
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00:00:03.770 --> 00:00:05.005 Because I remember, like,
 4
00:00:05.005 --> 00:00:07.907 my last few years of high school, I was really, like, lacking,
 5
00:00:07.907 --> 00:00:10.410 like, the motivation and the confidence even go into college.
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00:00:10.410 --> 00:00:11.444 And then I kind of, like, felt
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00:00:11.444 --> 00:00:14.447 the pressure from, like, people outside and like, the friends around me,
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00:00:14.647 --> 00:00:16.649 like they're all getting accepted to colleges like Ronnie,
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00:00:16.649 --> 00:00:17.751 what's your next move?
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00:00:17.751 --> 00:00:20.920 So did you feel any pressures or, like, did you feel like when you made a decision
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00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:22.856 you didn't want to go to college no more? How are you feeling?
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00:00:22.856 --> 00:00:24.424 Yeah, my pressure was a little bit different.
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00:00:24.424 --> 00:00:27.360 I'm the first of my immediate family to graduate high school and go to college.
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00:00:27.360 --> 00:00:29.429 So I kind of felt like I was the one that made it.
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00:00:29.429 --> 00:00:32.165 So there was the weight of trying to be the person who could kind of,
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00:00:32.165 --> 00:00:35.235 you know, get to the finish line of, you know, going through high school,
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00:00:35.235 --> 00:00:37.437 graduating and then going to college and graduating.
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00:00:37.437 --> 00:00:39.873 But I had to realize that I'm on my own journey.
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00:00:39.873 --> 00:00:42.876 And navigating that was going to be what I needed to do.
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00:00:42.876 --> 00:00:45.011 And I couldn't worry about what everybody else thought about it.
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00:00:45.011 --> 00:00:47.080 I had to literally find myself, I had to go through
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00:00:47.080 --> 00:00:50.350 some really tough life challenges where unfortunately, I ended up
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00:00:50.950 --> 00:00:53.620 making poor choices, hanging around people I probably shouldn't,
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00:00:53.620 --> 00:00:57.323 and unfortunately landed myself incarcerated, for about a year.
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00:00:57.323 --> 00:00:59.726 So part of that journey to me ended up being that, you know,
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00:00:59.726 --> 00:01:01.428 I guess the young people say like, be lifing.
 27
00:01:01.428 --> 00:01:05.965 And like, I went through life challenges and it forced me, in a sense,
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00:01:05.965 --> 00:01:08.902 to have to really get focused on what did I want to do with myself.
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00:01:08.902 --> 00:01:10.537 What was important to me, what mattered.
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00:01:10.537 --> 00:01:13.840 And I just am super thankful that, you know, I was able to get connected
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00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:17.410 to an organization like Year Up United to really help me kind of chart that path.
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00:01:17.644 --> 00:01:19.979 And having, you know, a lot of people who supported
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00:01:19.979 --> 00:01:21.848 and cared about me along the journey to really help
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00:01:21.848 --> 00:01:23.583 that to me is the secret sauce.
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00:01:23.583 --> 00:01:25.785 You're going to want to do a lot of things you want to do,
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00:01:25.785 --> 00:01:28.855 but if you're not connected to people who've charted the path ahead of you
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00:01:28.855 --> 00:01:32.158 that you can tap into, who care about you will support you along a journey,
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00:01:32.759 --> 00:01:35.829 it's not impossible, but I feel like it's just a lot harder to do
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00:01:35.829 --> 00:01:37.063 if you don't have that.
 

While I was growing up, my mother battled addiction and I didn’t know my father, so my extended family stepped in to raise me, teaching me resilience and service.

I went to college straight out of high school but I wasn't quite ready for that level of responsibility at that age. I decided to leave college and then reinvest in my education later in life when I was ready.

I made some wrong choices and ended up incarcerated for about a year. It really made me reevaluate my life and focus in on a plan for my future.

I spend my days helping faculty solve their tech issues at MIT. Each day is different. One moment I’m walking an older faculty member through the basics, the next I’m guiding a young professional through complex systems. I love making people feel supported, helping them navigate fast-changing technology, and ensuring they leave our interactions more confident and capable.

Adversity

Barriers To Education Inside Prison

Barriers To Education Inside Prison

David Carrillo

647 videos on Adversity: